Jamaica’s possible return to IMF, good or bad?

June 30th, 2009

Since the budget was read back in April, there has been continuous debate and discussion about Jamaica’s possible return to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

The Government continues to insist that it is just preparing itself  should it need to turn to the body for money. The government also insists that certain requirements that existed at the IMF in the past are no more and so the country really has nothing to worry about should it choose to borrow money from the Fund again.

While government refuses to state once and for all when or if it will be borrowing from the IMF, do you think it is imminent? What are the possible implications for the country? Should we restablish a borrowing relationship with the IMF? What alternatives can the government utilise rather than going to the IMF?  Have your say…..


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38 Responses to “Jamaica’s possible return to IMF, good or bad?”

  1. BOB says:

    IT CAN BE GOOD IF THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP KNOW WHAT THEY ARE REALLY DOING!. BUT IF THEY DON’T AS I SUSPECT THEN WE WILL BE IN HELL!…

  2. Neutral Justice says:

    Sometimes I have to really wonder why Idiots like bobiesha post unintelligent, uninformed mumblings, bablings, and utter rubbish on this sacred site. The IMF has never ever ever ever ever ever being good for any caribbean country that has a majority of blacks or brown skinned people. These greedy bankers, sly economist, are in for the money and control. Their lending are based entirely on over greed profits, and they are not people oriented. So, if the labor party wants to lose such a hard fought battle to win leadership of the Jamaican people, then they can go to the IMF.

    There are good people in the JLP who spend their entire life savings to win, and now, because deep stupidity from Golding and fine-ants Shaw the country will be in turmoil. IMF loan conditions are built to overthrow governments. Why in the world would you cut off your nose to spite your political face. The Jamaican people does not have an opposition right now, too much bad mind from Peter and his idiot combolos, and now to hand Portia another term because of the IMF tough lending policies. You Golding will be asking a starving country like Jamaica to tighten their belt again. You will surely be shown the door of failure, with the IMF blood money. Jamaican have given the IMF too much money in the past, and they now waiting to lick their racist fingers again from the blood sweat and tears from black and brown people! IMF spells trouble Brucie, Portia get ready to pounce, the JLP is now tired to be in power. Everyone who reads my blog knows I love my country with a very deep passion, cause this is the land my birth. I will give my life for Jamaica, so if it not right I will say as it is, this no right, it is too temporary a fix, with devastating conditions for such a poor country. Go figure.

  3. Bobby Lue says:

    THE PUSH DOWN, POP-UP EFFECT

    Only three countries in the world have ever successfully paid off the IMF, and Jamaica is the last of that three. When the IMF met in the United States some years ago to discuss its annual business, thousands and thousands of people from victimized countries travelled halfway around the world to protest its draconian policies towards under-develop and developing countries. This took the IMF by surprised and forced them to make some cosmetics changes to the face of their business.

    But the IMF can not make money without exploiting needy countries. And the way they do there business is to find someone in rinki-dinki governments like ours, and pay them incentive money (or commission) to line-up the business for them. The only reason we haven’t officially signed up with the IMF as yet is probably because the agent has not decided if the incentive pay-out should take the form of an investment in a botanical garden, or some hotel on the north coast for the political bosses. Sometimes they give the political bosses’ children, and grand children, full scholarships to foreign universities (this is shamefully a fact).

    If we burrow from the IMF to build highways, stadiums, schools, or to modernize essential services like hospitals and water supply, then it is may be a good thing. But if we burrow to build a new parliament building, off-set imports, or to again facilitate the rise of a Capital class, then it will be futile. The previous administration under PJ’s jurist prudence was skillful in getting us out of the tenacious grasp of the IMF. If our government returns, it will again leave it up to the next administration to painfully get us out. So far, we would have officially spend all of our so-called independent political life as a country struggling. Our last best chance to enjoy relative prosperity was destroyed by the sabotaging of our attempts to industrialize the 1970’s.

  4. Craig says:

    Appealing to IMF can only spell trouble – existing economic trouble that gives rise to the need for an IMF appeal and the trouble that will be brought on by IMF conditions.

    Even though some in Government seem to think that the onerous IMF conditions of the past are ‘of the past’, pardon my skepticism.

    The IMF has only proved to advance the cause of foreign private enterprise and decrease public sector spending (and increase unemployment) among other things. There is no evidence that IMF conditions once practically applied will be any less onerous.

    But I suspect we will have to find this out the hard way.

  5. BOB says:

    NATURAL JUSTICE.

    YOU THINK I BABBLE THINGS!… I WONDER WHERE YOU WERE WHEN I MAKE MY PIECE KNOWN HERE AND OTHER MEDIUM!… BUT I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU . THE 2 WAY I SEE THE INTERNATIONAL MAFIA FUND (IMF) AND I BET YOU NEVER KNOWN THAT’S WHAT THE ABBREVIATION IMF MEANS?… THIS IS WHY NO COUNTRY CAN EVER MAKE IT WHEN THEY GET ENTANGLE WITH THE IMF!…

    BUT JAMAICA COULD!… AND HERE IS HOW, YOU SEE THOSE ASSETS THAT OUR STUPID LEADERS HAVE BEEN SELLING TO FOREIGNERS. WE SHOULD HAVE BETTER SENSE TO KEEP THEM!… AND THEN BORROW THE MONEY FROM THE IMF TO ADVANCE THESE ASSETS MAKE THEM MORE EFFICIENT! AND MORE PRODUCTIVE!… THE CANS LAND AND FACTORIES THAT THE GOVERNMENT JUST SOLD, SHOULD NEVER I REPEAT NEVER HAVE BEEN SOLD!..

    THERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW THE IMF MONEY COULD HELP JAMAICA. BUT LEASING OR GIVING THE LAND TO LOCAL JAMAICANS! BORROW THE IMF MONEY AND TURN LOCAL JAMAICANS INTO FARMERS TO PRODUCE ALL KIND OF CROPS FOR THE EXPORT MARKET!…CHINA SOUTH KOREA NORTH KOREA AND OTHERS FAR EAST COUNTRIES ARE ALL MARKET FOR PORK AND BEEF! WE COULD PRODUCE AND SELL TO THEM!.. THUS HELPING OURSELVES TO GET OUT OF THE HOLE WE ARE IN. WHILE USING THE IMF MONEY TO BETTER OUR SELVES THIS WAY!…

    BUT THESE THESE TICK THIRDS THAT WE HAVE AS LEADERS! DON’T KNOW THEIR ASS FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND!… JUST LOOK AT WHAT SHAW DID SAID WHEN THIS FINANCIAL CRISIS COME ON STAGE?… ALL THESE NUMSKULLS KNOW IS HOW TO BE CORRUPT AND POCKET THE TAX PAYERS MONEY AND SELL THE ASSETS OF THE COUNTRY TO THEIR FRIENDS! SO THEY CAN GET KICKBACK!….

    AND IF THEY CANT DO WHAT I OUTLINE WHICH I DOUBT! THEN ALL JAMAICANS BE PREPARED TO BE THE FIRST CARIBBEAN ISLAND TO BE COLONIZE AGAIN SINCE THE ABOLISH OF SLAVERY!….

    IN SHORT WE NEED BUSINESS TYPE PEOPLE TO RUN THE COUNTRY!
    WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO SEE AN OPPORTUNITY!
    AND USE IT TO THE COUNTRY ADVANTAGE!…

    SO NOW I OUTLINE MINE AGAIN! I WANT YOU TO TOP THAT. TELL ME IF WE HAVE DISCIPLINE AND SMART LEADERS ! “THAT IT CANT BE DONE?…

  6. I am a bit concerned about goining back to the IMF.From what I have heard countries who have gone the IMF way always end up worst off than they were before.I am so sorry that the country has to take this retrograde step after having fought so hard to get rid of this institution. Mr. Manely used the term “Ban yuh belly” , we had better buy some new strong belts to do it again.

  7. Ommugabe says:

    What are the ‘implications’ of bowing down for assistance from an historical enemy?

    Those are the same implications of dealing with IMF and every other European-created organizations — Self-destruction/retardation of progress!

    Every last one of these European-created organizations is designed for one reason and one reason only — divisive, destructive, vile and evil European world domination!

    You name it: UN, IMF, World Bank, ICC and on and on.
    These evil entities are ALL about Europeans devising devilish and deceptive ways to dominate others and the whole world.

    It is vital that awaken Jamaicans seek to emulate the Mighty Maroons of 300 years ago.
    Even then, there were some Jamaicans wise to the urgent need for Jamaican Self-determination, Self-development, Self-sufficiency & Self-reliance from the enemies of Europe.

    It is 300 years on since Nanny and the boys showed the way; and yet too many of the later generations of more ‘literate’ Jamaicans STILL find themselves to be ignorant mental slaves to the wicked ways of the Westerners?

    The alternative for Jamaica is China and other Asian states.

    The Self-developmental needs of relatively small Jamaica can be satisfied by ‘Looking East’!
    There is enough wealth, technological development, faultless history and satisfying interpersonal relationship to fulfill the needs of this relatively small population.

    From the East, Jamaica can achieve WIN-WIN international interactions.

    From the wicked West, Jamaicans can only expect a ‘master-servant/slave’ interaction. And guess who is expected to be the servant/slave?
    It is a waste of time, energy and resources dealing with Europeans, who are ONLY about domination and submission.
    The Mighty Maroons knew 300 years ago to not submit to evil beings.

    It is a sad commentary of our mis-educational system that Jamaicans today will submit to historically evil beings, and so become less and less independent, and evil in the process.

  8. TrevDiMan says:

    I don’t know if re-establishing a borrowing relationship with the IMF is a good idea or not. From what I’ve read and heard, the IMF of the 70s, 80s and 90s has changed. They are supposedly more understanding of the conditions in the respective borrowing countries and have tried to tailor any lender-borrower relationship accordingly. That said, what this points up to is the fact that the J’can gov’t., whether led by the JLP or PNP, will have to do a better job getting its financial house in order. That means enacting fiscal and monetary policies that are conducive to economic growth and development. It also means that more than lip service has to be paid to the social issues and that the tribalism that has defined J’can politics for all this time has to come to an end. Business as usual and SOP simply cannot continue and some difficult choices will have to be made.
    Of course, all this might not have happened if some of these choices had been made by the pre-2007 gov’t and earlier in this present government’s reign. For too long, procrastination and downplaying and sugar coating Ja’s anemic economic conditions has been the norm and now we have arrived at this point.

  9. BOB says:

    admin once again I ask why is it that my comments are not approved in the order it was posted!. it there some thing i am letting the people of Jamaica privy to that i should not in my postings?…. why is there a bias toward my postings?… no wonder we have the kinda rubbish we have continuing in Jamaica by those who are in authority!…

  10. BOB says:

    OMMUGABE:
    I DON’T SUPPORT YOUR RANT AGAINST EUROPEANS!.. AND HERE IS WHY!. UNTIL I SEE YOU COME OUT AND SAID THAT OUR LEADERS SHOULD BE SHOT FOR TREASON! I WILL NEVER SUPPORT YOUR RANT AGAINST ANY OTHER COUNTRIES AND WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF THE BUSINESS THEY SET UP!… WHEN WE HAVE INCOMPETENCE LEADERS FROM THE DAY OF INDEPENDENCE UNTIL NOW! ONLY THINKING OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS!… YOU KNOW THAT WE ARE DOOM!… JUST TAKE AIR JAMAICA FOR EXAMPLE!.. ISN’T IT STRANGE ! THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN AS THE AIRLINE IS GETTING BACK IN THE BLACK! WE FIND A BUYER FOR IT?… YOU AND OTHER JAMAICANS NEED TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE ITS NOT SO MUCH FOREIGN POWERS THAT ARE TRYING TO KEEP US DOWN!.

    BUT ITS OUR OWN JUDAS LIKE WHEN HE HAD BETRAYED JESUS, SO ITS OUR LEADERS ! WHO SOLD US OUT IN THIS SO-CALL STUPIDNESS CALLED DIVESTMENT!… WHAT IS THERE TO SHOW FOR IT?.. LOOK AT THE SUGAR FACTORY AND LAND!…ITS A DAMN SHAME!

    WHEN THOSE LANDS COULD BE LEASED TO JAMAICANS AND ALLOWED OUR LOCAL FARMING COMMUNITY TO GROW! AND STRIVE! WE COULD HAVE A LOT OF JAMAICAN FARMING FOR EXPORT!… BUT NO WE SELL AND GIVE EVERY THING TO FOREIGNERS! WHO WILL STILL TAKE THE PROFIT OUT!…WHAT’S THE USE?.ITS TIME FOR THE JAMAICAN PEOPLE TO RISE UP AND MAKE SURE THAT ALL THESE POLITICIANS! GO TO PRISON! BECAUSE WHAT THEY ARE DOING! IS ROBBING THE COUNTRY AND PUTTING IT IN FOREIGN ACCOUNTS SO WHEN THEY LEFT POLITICAL LIFE THEY CAN LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND LIVE BIG!.

  11. Ommugabe says:

    TrevDiMan,

    Can a leopard change its spots? No?
    So too can the beastly Europeans not change their historically evil and rapacious ways.

    Therefore any so-called ‘change’ from past behavior in this european-created entity, IMF, CAN ONLY be a ‘change’ to disguise their historically evil intentions — to dominate, dictate to, and plunder others!

  12. BOB says:

    SO SOME BODY WAS NOT HAPPY WITH MY LAST POST SO THEY DELETE IT!… WELL ONE THING I KNOW THEY CANT DELETE MY BRAIN!… SOME PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO PLAY POLITICS HERE ON ISSUE THAT THE JAMAICAN PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THEIR SAY ON!… BUT I AM HAPPY I WAS ABLE TO LEAVE AND BE ABLE TO HAVE A WIDE RANGE OF HOW THINGS SHOULD WORK IN A DEMOCRACY..

    NOT SOME DICTATORSHIP! WHERE THE MEDIA IS CONTROL BY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO KEEP THE LESS EDUCATED JAMAICANS FROM UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEIR SO-CALL LEADERS ARE DOING!…

  13. francineb says:

    All posts are approved once they are in keeping with the standards of this blog. All posts for all the topics on this blog come through one filter and it is difficult to shift through every comment topic by topic. Therefore posts are approved in the order they come through the filter, which is from the most recent to the oldest. Once they are approved it will appear accordingly on the blog. If you see one of your more recent posts approved and not one of the older ones, all you need to do is wait a few minutes and refresh the page and you will see it added, as sometimes the post is still be reviewed.

  14. Ommugabe says:

    francineb

    Your ‘filter’ is working backwards if it is ‘last in first out’.
    Posts should actually be posted ‘as they come in’, which is older before newer.

    Otherwise, the posts become out of good order.

  15. Ommugabe says:

    BOB
    July 6, 2009 at 8:44 am

    So you would rather have our ‘leaders shot’ rather than enduring alleged ‘rant against europeans’, we know from history to be beastly towards Jamaicans? Mmmmmm!

    What did you say about “ITS OUR OWN JUDAS, LIKE WHEN HE HAD BETRAYED JESUS,”

    It is fitting that you know Judas well: You completely personify his most infamous characteristics — destroy your own, but wouldn’t countenance going after KNOWN foreign foes.

    IMF is just another tool of European relentless and evil efforts at racist world domination.

    Our lost leaders political prostitutes who serve the wealth addicts, may have their issues.
    However, their power to do evil in Jamaica and in the world at large, pales in comparison to the KNOWN destructive powers of European plunderers

  16. BOB says:

    OMMUGABE.

    YOU GOT PART OF WHAT I WAS SAYING RIGHT!.. BUT YOU THEN TURN AROUND AND LUMP ME WITH THE EVIL THAT YOU ARE CURSING!… HERE IS A LOGIC THAT YOU SHOULD USE!… IF YOU PRODUCE GOODS AND HAVE NO MARKET!… WHAT HAPPEN TO THAT GOODS AND YOUR PRODUCTION FACILITY?… IT CLOSED BANKRUPT… BUT AS LONG AS YOU HAVE PEOPLE WILLING TO BUY YOUR GOODS YOU WILL CONTINUE TO BE IN BUSINESS!…

    HERE IS IT IN PLAIN WORDS!.. OUR LEADERS ARE A FACILITATOR OF THAT EUROPEAN GREED! THEY DECIDE TO TAKE BRIBE TO ALLOWED THE EUROPEANS TO CONTINUE TO HOLD US HOSTAGE WITH THEIR MAFIA FUND AND OTHER FUNDS!..

    IF OUR LEADERS DON’T ACCEPT THEIR PROPOSAL THEN WE WOULDN’T BE IN THEIR GRASP!.. BUT WE HAVE CORRUPTED AND GREEDY LEADERS! WHO JUST THINK OF THEMSELVES AND NOT OF THE NATION!…

    HERE IS ANOTHER REASON WHY I SAID THAT!.. JUST GO READ THE STUPIDNESS THAT THE AGRICULTURAL MINISTER COMING OUT WITH!. WHILE SELLING THE PRIME AGGRO LAND TO FOREIGNERS!… INSTEAD OF GIVING IT TO LOCAL FARMERS! AND OTHER JAMAICANS WHO ARE OUT OF WORK! TO USE TO PRODUCE CROPS FOR EXPORT . THUS TO KEEP US OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE GREEDY AND BEASTLY EUROPEANS YOU TALK ABOUT FROM KEEPING US UNDER THEIR FEET!… THE GOVERNMENT HAVE HAMPDEN PROPERTY IN COURT THE CASE IS NOT BEEN DISPOSE OF ! BUT THEY SELL THE ESTATE . WITH OUT REGARDS TO THE OUTCOME OF THE COURT CASE!. NOW WHAT IF THE COURT RULE IN THE FAVOR OF THE ESTATE. WHAT WILL THE GOVERNMENT DO?… GO BORROW AGAIN FROM THE IMF TO PAY BREACH OF CONTRACT BECAUSE THEY ARE ACTING LIKE DICTATORS?.. THIS IS WHY I BLAME THEM! AND NOT THE EUROPEANS!…

  17. Kevin Forge says:

    Wow. What a load of uninformed rants.

    The reality is that the IMF has always had a development agenda. Where they blundered in the 1970s (Jamaica started Borrowing from them in the 70s) to the early 1990s is that they assumed that cutting social programs was always a prudent way to reduce the cost of government. Problem is, this solution only works in developed countries which are already spending 10X on social programs what is needed to keep the most vulnerable from abject desperation.

    the IMF started changing that viewpoint in the mid 1990s. By 10 years ago to qualify for IMF funding they would insist that you look after core social programs like Justice, Education and health.

    Not that this bothered Jamaica, we were off borrowing at 5X the interest rate from private lenders who care only about profit recovering their money. Since then every time someone mentioned IMF the scream came from the government that “the IMF conditionalities are too grave”.

    What the government never mentioned was that the conditionalities they voluntarily imposed in order to have enough to service the higher priced private debt were MORE damaging than the worst the IMF ever imposed in any country.

    Here is the rub however. There is one conditionality that the IMF has demanded from foundation to now, which remains unchanged. It’s the single conditionality that prompted our government to leave the IMF prematurely. The IMF has very little tolerance for corruption and waste.

    Even in it’s darkest hour the IMF was willing to argue with you and even bend a little about better pay for nurses or more books for the public libraries, but they would let you know in no uncertain terms that spending $100 on a project budgeted to cost $40 is unacceptable. If that extra expenditure cannot be fully explained and justified, you would be severely punished.

    The big issue right now, and the reason Minister Shaw has been talking about IMF borrowing for over 2 years (it’s in the JLP’s 2007 Manifesto) without actually collecting any money from them is that there is some doubt as to which IMF program, if any, Jamaica qualifies under.

    In other words: Despite the politically correct words being thrown around, the current Government has been trying to borrow from the IMF since they came into office and the delay is coming from the other side. I.e. The IMF has not agreed to lend to us as yet.

  18. Ommugabe says:

    BOB
    July 8, 2009 at 10:46 am

    “IF OUR LEADERS DON’T ACCEPT THEIR PROPOSAL THEN WE WOULDN’T BE IN THEIR GRASP!..”

    “THIS IS WHY I BLAME THEM (our politicians)! AND NOT THE EUROPEANS!…”

    That last quote from you, Bob, indicates why you represent well the Ja Judas, of whom you often speak.

    The Europeans have done, and continue to do, far greater harm to Jamaicans than all Ja politicians combined could ever done in their wildest dream.

    “If our leaders do not accept their proposals”, then those devilish Europeans will find some way of spiting/sanctioning Jamaicans.

    So even though I can agree with you that our leaders could offer more resistance to the plundering and domination coming from Europeans, the bigger evil has been relentless from the Europeans side.
    Learn the history of European beast behavior across the planet; recognize the wisdom of my position; and stop the Judas ‘in fighting’.
    This only weakens Jamaicans and allow the Europeans even more advantage.

    If you waste time and energy fighting yourself, then your enemy’s ‘job’ will be that easier.

    “Looking East” to China, say, is an alternative to looking to enemies in Europe that should be explored to the max; because with the Chinese there is greater expectation for a Win-Win interaction.
    And the Chinese are far less plunderous of others.

    Historically, the Chinese are no worse in dealing with other nations than they are in dealing with themselves.

    While we MUST hold our leaders accountable, ‘charity should begin at home’.
    We CANNOT therefore be harder on our own that we would be on foreign foes!
    Otherwise, we are not just being a Ja Judas; you are being suicidal!

  19. Mark says:

    Ommugabe:

    I find all you ranting rather strange. Don’t you live in the UK?

    Remembers guys, beggars are not choosers! When I country perpetually lives beyond their means, then in the end they are left with few options. Creating an annual budget with an inherently built-in deficit doesn’t show financial discipline or proper fiscal management. When you exhaust all alternatives, I guess the IMF is you option of last resort.

    At least the present administration had the temerity to get rid of Air Jamaica, at least most of it (why not all?), since this money losing entity has been a drain on the countries limited resources for decades. Now they need to cut the government bloated payroll in half. Most government entity is highly overstaffed and packed with political hacks.

  20. BOB says:

    OMMUGABE.

    SO WHAT?.. IF THE EUROPEANS SANCTIONED JAMAICA? JUST LOOK AT CUBA DOES CUBA HAVE SUCH PROBLEM?…”NO.. THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT DECIDE TO EXTRICATE ITSELF FROM THESE EVIL SLAVE MASTER AND TRY TO BE SELF RELIANT, AND ITS WORKING!.. ITS SOME OF US JAMAICAN WHO CANT DO WITH OUT THE LATEST CRAZE THAT COME ON STREAM!.. THIS KEEP US UNDER THESE SO-CALL EVIL DOERS YOU RANT ABOUT!…

    MAY BE IF WE STOP SELLING WHAT WE HAVE AND PULL TOGETHER AND BE HONEST WITH EACH OTHER !.. YOU WOULDN’T BE SO CYNICAL OF OTHERS WHO JUST DOING BUSINESS WITH A BUNCH OF GREEDY CORRUPTED FOOLS!…

    YOU BET IF I CAN BUY A CELL PHONE FROM CHINA FOR 50c AND BE ABLE TO SELL IT BACK TO YOU FOR A $100 , YOU BET I WOULD SELL IT TO YOU!… JAMAICAN POLITICIANS ARE LIKE KIDS IN A CANDY STORE TO THE EUROPEANS!.. THEY ARE CAUGHT BY THE COLOR OF THE CANDY AND THE AMOUNT!…

    SO THEY TAKE NO TIME TO THINK THEY CANT HAVE IT ALL, AND THERE SHOULD BE PRIORITY!..

  21. BOB says:

    MARK.

    NO MATTER HOW YOU DISH IT OUT ! AIR JAMAICA AND THE SCJ SHOULD NOT BE SOLD!. AND THEY SHOULDN’T COST THE GOV WHAT THEY COST IN THE FIRST PLACE.. THE REASON IS A LOCK OF PROPER MANAGEMENT… HOW COME SOME ONE ELSE WILL BUY IT AND MAKE IT PROFITABLE?… THAT’S THE MAJOR ISSUE OF GOVERNMENT ENTITIES THAT IS NEED TO BE ADDRESS!…

    THIS IS WHY WE ARE STILL GOING TO FOREIGN LENDING INSTITUTION TO BORROW!.. AND THAT’S WHY THEY TREAT US LIKE THIS!. BECAUSE THEY REALIZE WE ARE A BUNCH OD IDIOTS! FROM OUR LEADERS DOWN!… THE FEW OF US WHO ARE SMART ENOUGH . ARE NOT GIVEN THE CHANCE OF MANAGING THE ASSETS OF THE COUNTRY!…

    BECAUSE IF YOU SHOULD TAKE SOME OF THOSE SO-CALL DIVESTMENT DEALS! AND GO OVER THEM YOU START TO REALIZE WHAT A BUNCH OF FOOLS THAT NEGOTIATION THESE SALES CONTRACTS!… BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE PATENT! AND WE AS JAMAICAN HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON HARD HEADED!… WE DON’T GO AND GET PROPER ADVICE!… WE FOCUS ON ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY! AND ITS TO SELL AND MAKE A FEW QUICK BUCKS!… AND THAT’S WHAT KILLING US!.

    WE JAMAICAN BEGRUDGE EACH OTHERS AND THAT’S ANOTHER ONE OF OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM!… BECAUSE IF SOME ONE GO TO A LOWER SCHOOL THAN YOU ! BUT HE SEEM TO BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE OPERATION OF THINGS! THE PERSON WITH THE HIGHER GRADE !… RATHER TO STRUGGLE TO TRY TO OPERATE THINGS INSTEAD OF RECOGNIZING THAT IT WILL DO MORE GOOD TO GIVE THE JOB TO THE PERSON WITH THE EXPERIENCE!…

  22. Ommugabe says:

    BOB says:
    July 9, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    “YOU BET IF I CAN BUY A CELL PHONE FROM CHINA FOR 50c AND BE ABLE TO SELL IT BACK TO YOU FOR A $100 , YOU BET I WOULD SELL IT TO YOU!… JAMAICAN POLITICIANS ARE LIKE KIDS IN A CANDY STORE TO THE EUROPEANS!”

    Bob
    Your thinking and mindset seem to be based on misinformation concerning:

    a) the Natural Laws governing human behavior.

    b) the place of business interactions in the field of human behavior.

    c) the historical behavior of Europeans, their IMF and other European-created entities

    The fact that you can ‘price gouge’ does not mean that is the best course of HUMAN action! It is not!

    The fact that you have a ‘kids in your candy store’ does not mean that you are at liberty to feed the kids junk and otherwise rob him. You are not!

    Business IS NOT a field of ‘anything goes’ so long as you can ‘pull a fast one on your customer’.
    That is BEAST behavior, not human!
    And the consequences of beast behavior is that in time, you WILL be caged or destroyed by humans!

    To believe that Europeans with their IMF, etc are merely people doing business, is false thinking!

    The greatest danger to the inhabitants of Jamaica for hundreds of years now has been the beastly behavior of Europeans toward it inhabitants, indigenous or otherwise.

    You cannot see it, the Big Picture that is; but the self-destructiveness of our political prostitutes of Ja wealth-addicts, pales in comparison to the destructiveness of Europeans towards the inhabitants of Jamaica.

    Try learning Ja’s history from those who can teach you wisdom.

    Those with the greatest influence in Jamaica to this day are those who control Ja Lands, Wealth & Resources!

    It is those with the GREATEST INFLUENCES influence who bears the GREATEST RESPONSIBILITY and ARE MOST ACCOUNTABLE, whether in your home or in your country or in your world!
    This is so INFLUENCE is required to get things done, whether large or small!

    You lean too heavily on those who have the relatively lightest influence on the affairs of Jamaicans.

    It is the people who FUND politicians that control politicians, and to whom politicians are beholden!
    A citizen with a ‘meager vote’ supports politicians meagerly!

    And meager support can get you how much service from the political prostitute?

  23. Mark says:

    Bob, Bob, Bob….very few airlines in the world are profitable my friend!!!! In the US, I can only think of one at the moment; Southwest.

    The airline business is the worst business one can ever operate. I remember an interview with the former ceo of American Airlines (AA)and the statement he made was that you would have to brain dead to buy airline stocks and further stated that he never own any AA stocks.

    Air Jamaica, since its inception, has never brought any positive NPV (net present value) to the Jamaican economy….maybe to the hotels! The Government commissioned (brought)a study a few years ago to show the positive impact air Jamaica has on the Jamaican economy. It was done by a MIT professor. It had to be the worst study I have ever seen.

  24. TrevDiMan says:

    Bob, government should not be in the business of business. Leave business to business people. Government, by their very name and nature, should be in the business of governing, of laying the framework for and in which businesses (and society) should operate, among their other duties. Ommugabe, ranting about the ‘European-run’ IMF ruining Jamaica is an inane rant, if there ever was one. When Omar, in the prior gov’t, was dealing with Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch, among others, who do you think were the founders of these firms? Europeans, which I believe you’re using as a euphemism for caucasians. Enough with the crap about blaming ‘whitey’ for all our ills when it’s apparent that a good number of them were and are self-inflicted.
    When you had the previous gov’t and, until fairly recently, this present administration sugar coating Jamaica’s economic woes, that’s not because of outside influence but rather political expediency and incompetence. Political expediency and incompetence are not limited to Jamaica or to black-ruled countries as the Bush (43) Administration in the US clearly demonstrates. Jamaica will only get better when the real adults start to run the place instead of those masquerading as such.

  25. TrevDiMan says:

    Bob, the government should not be in the business of business. Government, by its very name and nature, should be in the business of governing, of laying the frame- and groundwork by which society operates. Selling the SCJ and Air Jamaica were long overdue. This type of thinking that government should own and operate commercial entities is so anachronistic as to not be funny.
    Ommugabe, this inane notion that the white man, via the IMF, is to be blamed for Jamaica’s economic ills is just ridiculous. How about we start blaming PJ, Portia and Bruce? For too long we’ve had governments led by these folks that have refused to make the tough decisions to get Jamaica out of this hole it’s in. Jamaica’s economic woes did not just happen in the last two years but have been 20 yrs in the making.
    Jamaica, up until now, has not had a borrowing relationship with the IMF since the mid-90s and how much better have things gotten for poor folk? The stats about less poverty should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. When you have idiot politicians procrastinating on making the tough decisions that’s not something one can blame on ‘whitey.’ We’re going to have to face up to some inconvenient truths and make decisions that won’t be easy. As long as it’s not made to look as if some are benefiting at the expense of others and folks are made aware of that then Jamaica might be better off in the long run.

  26. Ommugabe says:

    TrevDiMan
    July 12, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    You an apologist for your so-called ‘whitey’? lol

    When I stated ‘European’, I mean those who are indigenous to Europe, and who have HISTORICALLY been known to relentlessly pursue the unnatural and delusional state of world domination and world plunder!

    We don’t make note of European rapaciousness because they are indigenous to Europe. We do so on account of their historical beast BEHAVIOR while rampaging across the planet.

    So it is not about your ‘whitey’, per se.
    It is about your whitey’s hellish history of beast BEHAVIOR! Understand?

    IMF is just another tool of European effort at world domination, regardless of the incompetency of some of our lost leaders.

    Even if some of Jamaica’s pains are indeed self-inflicted, even WORSE pain continues to come from the historical association with European, who are ONLY intent on domination and plunder!

    Jamaica and the rest of the Caribbean are in a mess because of the hellish legacy of the enslavement and colonization, which did not create coherent and productive societies.

    Yes, Jamaicans are masters of our fate.
    However, that does not mean that obstacles cannot be consciously and deliberately placed in the paths of such masters?
    That is the destructive role that the virtue-less Europeans have played and continue to play thwart progress or brainwash some into their inimical image.

  27. Steve says:

    While I am an advocate for IMF financing, I find interesting that the Minister of Finance is absent from the negotiations.

    Is it that he is not technically sound in financial matters why he forced this absence upon himself?

    I mean if I were a lab technician I too would not want to sit at a table where terms and equations are thrown out and I be made to look like a dunce. My presence may in fact prevent the most suitable outcome considering my ignorance may be seen as a risk which might become a factor in the decision.

    So in hindsight, I agree with Audley Shaw, by staying away he has reduced the risk of Jamaica being (a) turned down or (b) be sent an IMF technocrat to monitor our implementation on a daily basis (which we would have to pay for).

    So kudos to the Minister for keeping his ignorant ass at home.

  28. BOB says:

    TREVORDIMAN.

    WELL IF YOU BELIEVE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE OPERATING BUSINESS . YOU MAKE A MISTAKE!.. ASK THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE PROVINCES HERE IN CANADA WHY DO THEY MANAGE AND INVEST TAX PAYERS PENSION FUND?…

    ITS BECAUSE YOU AND OTHERS WHO THINK LIKE YOU . SO USE TO CORRUPTED AND INCOMPETENT GOVERNMENTS. SO YOU HAVE NO CONFIDENT IN THEM TO OPERATE THE PUBLIC AFFAIRS MANAGING THE ASSETS OF THE PEOPLE!…

    OMMUGABE.

    THE LAW GOVERNING HUMAN BEHAVIOR YOU ARE TOUTING HERE IS HOGWASH!… WE HAVE THE POWER TO SAY LETS BIGHT THE BULLET AND LEARN TO CREEP BEFORE WE START TO TRY TO WALK FOR ALL THESE YEARS WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF THE EUROPEANS AS YOU PUT IT!…

    SOME BODY WROTE AN ARTICLE HERE ABOUT TAKING YOUR MEAT OUT MY RICE!. I THINK YOU MAY FAMILIAL WITH THAT SONG!… ITS LIKE YOU SAYING THAT THE EUROPEANS ARE SO DEVILISH BUT YOU STILL WONT FIND A POT TO COOK YOUR OWN FOOD YOU STILL PUTTING YOUR FOOD IN THEIR POT!. THEN U ASKING THEM NOT TO MAKE ANY OF YOUR FOOD TOUCH THEIRS!..

    GO LISTEN TO THE SONG AND PICK SOME THING OUT OF IT!.. WE ARE A NATION OF COMPLAINERS AND NOT DOERS.
    ITS TIME FOR US TO STOP BLAMING OTHERS AND DECIDE NOT TO ACCEPT WHAT THEY HAVE TO OFFER NO MATTER HOW SWEET IT MAY BE!.

  29. BOB says:

    MARK YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT SOME BODY WOULD BUY SUCH A BUSINESS IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE JUST THROWING MONEY AWAY!… THERE ARE AIRLINES THAT ARE MAKING MONEY . WEST JET, AIR TRANSAT. RYAN AIR. AND SEVERAL OTHERS . ITS JUST NOT AS BIG AS SOME WOULD LIKE TO SEE BUT THEY ARE !.

  30. Ommugabe says:

    BOB
    July 16, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Seems like you are not able to pay good attention; prefer to ‘hear your self talk’, right? lol

    Considering that Jamaicans have been literally mentally poisoned for centuries by their devilish cooking pot, I have never ever advocated Jamaicans cooking their food in the devil’s pot!

    The Mighty Maroons DID NOT care to use the pot of the enslavers, and rightly so!
    They have been the example for ALL alert Jamaicans.
    And those Mighty Maroon examples are centuries old, which means that we have been wasting time in the european trap, instead of by now improving on the wonderful examples of the Self-determined Maroons.

    Self-determination, Self-development, Self-sufficiency & Self-reliance is what I’ve ALWAYS advocated for Jamaicans and for others who need to break the back of the ‘divide and dominate’ devils!

    The world today is of such interconnectedness that ALL nations are interdependent.

    However, because Jamaicans have historically not been able to have a win-win relationship with the european crooks, Jamaicans should look elsewhere for the bulk of its international dealings.

    ‘Look East’!
    China, for example, is today sufficiently developed technologically to satisfy a lot of the needs of a mere 3 million Jamaicans.
    We waste time with the IMF and other european-created entities, which came into being to further european world domination.

    We shouldn’t be feeding the devil; we should be seeking to put him out of business, to prevent him from destroying the whole planet!

  31. TrevDiMan says:

    Bob, whether in Canada or the US, provinces, territories and states will usually have investment funds/managers handle their respective gov’t employees pension fund investments. They put this service up for bids, through whatever mechanism, and once they’ve picked someone then that investor is expected to invest the pension funds and, hopefully, help the respective locality realize a positive return on said investment.
    In any case, your response to my point is not the same as government operating an airline and owning and operating sugar cane plantations and factories. Air Jamaica and the SCJ have been money pits for the J’can gov’t and like a number of other things with the J’can gov’t, they need to be culled. My next hopes are: to see the cabinet reduced to 12 ministries; the number of electoral districts reduced to 45 instead of increasing them to 63; and replacing Parish Councils with county councils. The millions saved and gained would mean that much less we’d have to borrow from anyone anywhere.

  32. BOB says:

    TREVDIMAN.

    FIRST OF ALL GOVERNMENT CANT CALL TO PARLIMENT PRIVATE FIRM AND QUESTIONED THEM ABOUT RISKY INVESTMENT THEY HAVE MADE WITH PENSION MONEY. THE GOVERNMENT HAVE ITS OWN FUND MANAGER . THAT LOST 40,000,000.00 LAST YEAR IN RISKY INVESTMENTS, YES I SAID 40 BILLION CANADIAN DOLLARS.”WHAT DID GOVERNMENT DO THIS YEAR?… THEY CALL THE FUND MANAGE TO PARLIMENT TO HAVE HEARING AS TO WHY THEY TAKE SO MUCH RISK WITH TAX PAYER MONEY… HE WAS FIRED FOR IT . EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THE FALT ARE ON THE MARKET TOO . BUT THERE ARE A CIGNIFANT PORTION THAT WAS INVESTED IN COMMERCIAL BACKED PAPERS. WHICH WAS KNOWN TO BE VERY RISKY.

    IN JAMAICA, TO ME “WE HAVE A MANAGEMENT INFERIORITY WHEN IT COME TO ANY THING WITH A TITLE GOVERNMENT OWN ON THEM!… WE HAVE NO SENSE OF WHAT IT MEAN. WE JUST BELIEVE AS LONG AS ITS GOVERNMENT OWN ITS CONSIDERED FREEBIES. NO ONE HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE. SO ALL THE SO-CALL MANAGERS JUST GO THERE TO FILL THEIR POCKETS NO MATTER HOW THE COMPANY OR ENTITIES ARE LOOSING MONEY!… TO THEM AS LONG AS THEY WALK HOME WITH A PAYCHECK AT THE END OF THE WEEK, THAT’S ALL WHATS IMPORTANT TO THEM.

    THEY DON’T TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMPANY/ENTITIES ARE PROFICENT AND PROFITABLE… THERE ARE NO ONE TO REGULATE WHAT IS GOING ON!. EVERY BODY BUSY WITH THEIR HANDS IN THE COOKIE JAR. SO EVERY BODY TURN A BLIND EYES.
    .

    HERE IN QUEBEC. THE GOVERNMENT OWN THE ELECTRIC AND GAS COMPANT THAT SUPPLY NATURAL GAS AND ELECTRICITY TO THE ENTIRE PROVENCE OF OVER 7 MILLION PEOPLE THEY ALSO EXPORT ELECTRICITY TO THE UNITED STATES. AND THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING BIG PROFIT, THEY OWN AND OPERATE THE LOTTERY, THEY OWN THE 7 CASINO,AND THE LIQUOR STORES, IN THE PROVINCE. BUT THEY HAVE ALL THESE THINGS WITH MANAGER WHO HAVE TO MANAGE THESE ENTITIES AS A BUSINESS AND WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHATEVER ACTION THEY MAY TAKE AND THEY HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANY PROBLEM THAT WILL OR MAY ARIZE.

    THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THE JAMAICAN ENTITIES SUCH AS AIR JAMAICA AND THE SCJ AND OTHERS WE DID NOT HAVE TO SELL ANY THING. I KNOW OF A FACT THAT IT COULD BE DONE. BUT WE ARE SO RIFE WITH CORRUPTION AND INDIVIDUALISM AND SELFISHNESS, THAT’S WHY THESE ENTITIES FAILED!… THE MANAGERS OF THESE ENTITIES SHOULD BE HELD TO ACCOUNTS. NO PENSION NO SEVERANCE PACKAGES FOR PEOPLE WHO RUN GOVERNMENT ENTITIES IN THE GROUND!…

    MAY BE FOREIGN COUNTRY SHOULD DO 1 OF 2 THINGS TO JAMAICA.
    EITHER STOP LENDING US MONEY ALL TOGETHER.OR LENS US AT SUCH A HIGH INTEREST RATE . SO ALL JAMAICANS HOMES AND BUSINESS ARE NOW USED AS COLLATERAL TO GET THEIR MONEY. AND MAY BE THEN WE WILL WAKE UP TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOOD GOVERNANCE MEAN!….

    NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU REDUCE MPS. AND REPLACE PARISH COUNCIL. IT WILL NOT MAKE ONE DIFFERENCE . BECAUSE JAMAICANS WILL FIND A WAY TO F… IT AGAIN… OUR FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS 3 FOLD, 1 IS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEAN TO BE A INDEPENDENT COUNTRY, 2, WHAT IT MEAN TO UNITE AS ONE, KILL CORRUPTION IN EVERY ASPECT OF OUR SOCIETY!… WITHOUT THESE 3 STEPS , WE CAN KISS EVERY THING ELSE GOOD BYE!…

  33. BOB says:

    OMMUGABE.

    I GONNA PUT A SMILE ON YOUR FACE THIS TIME!… NOW THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT TO ANSWER ME THIS SIMPLY QUESTION. WITH ALL YOU MENTION ABOUT THE MAROONS, AND TO KEEP AWAY FROM THE DEVILS. “WHAT DO U PROPOSE WE DO THEN SHORT OF WIPING OUT OUR STUPID LEADERS?…

  34. Mark says:

    BOB says:July 16, 2009 at 6:10 pm…..”MARK YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT SOME BODY WOULD BUY SUCH A BUSINESS IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE JUST THROWING MONEY AWAY!… THERE ARE AIRLINES THAT ARE MAKING MONEY . WEST JET, AIR TRANSAT. RYAN AIR. AND SEVERAL OTHERS . ITS JUST NOT AS BIG AS SOME WOULD LIKE TO SEE BUT THEY ARE !.”……

    Bob, we do not know how the Air Jamaica deal will be structured, but a buyer might only be buying the asset without the associated liabilities. In so doing, they might be actually buying valuable “gates” at various airports in North America and elsewhere at minimal cost. These gates would probably be out of their reach without some sort of strategic purchase. The other issue has to do with economies of scale and the benefits that would bring to the purchaser.

    Bob, are you suggesting that the JA government continue to pour anywhere from US100-US170 million per year to prop-up a money losing entity? What is Air JA doing that another airline cannot do if Air JA ceases to exist? The airline business is a cut throat business where airline seats are heavily discounted to match rivals, the net result being a large number of airlines operating in the red. I often wonder why the bankruptcy route was not pursued by the JA government prior to selling the airline. Do you Bob?

  35. BOB says:

    MARK.

    Bob, we do not know how the Air Jamaica deal will be structured, but a buyer might only be buying the asset without the associated liabilities. In so doing, they might be actually buying valuable “gates” at various airports in North America and elsewhere at minimal cost. These gates would probably be out of their reach without some sort of strategic purchase. The other issue has to do with economies of scale and the benefits that would bring to the purchaser.

    MARK ,

    ISN’T IT THE REASON WHY WOULD WANT TO SELL SOME THING THAT IS COATING THEM MONEY , IS TO GET READ OF THE LIABILITIES?…
    WHAT WOULD BE THE GAIN TO THE TAX PAYERS OF JAMAICA TO SELL THE AIRLINE AND ITS SLOTS THEN STUCK WITH THE LIABILITIES?…

    LISTEN MARK.

    WHAT I AM SAYING , IS THIS . IF YOU HAVE A FARM AND YOU HAVE YOUR WATER PIPE THAT SUPPLY WATER TO YOUR FARM. IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GROW YOUR CROP AND HAVE GOOD HARVEST. YOU NOTICE YOU HAVE LOW PRESSURE IN THE WATER SUPPLY!… WHEN YOU CHECK WITH THE RELEVANT AUTHORITIES YOU FIND OUT THAT THERE IS A LEEK ON YOUR PROPERTY!… WOULDN’T YOU TRY TO HAVE IT FIXED? OR YOU WOULD JUST CONTINUE TO LET IT LEAKING UNTIL YOU GET FED UP AND SELL THE FORM?

    WELL THIS IS THE CASE OF ALL JAMAICAN GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. ITS ALL BECAUSE OF CORRUPTION AND INCOMPETENCY. THAT’S WHY WE ALLOWED THINGS TO FALL TO WHERE THEY ARE NOW.

    IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS FOLLOWING THE MONEY THEY WOULD KNOW WHERE THE LEEK IS AND IT WOULD BE FIXED. BUT NO ONE ANSWER’S TO NO ONE . ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COME TO THE ASSETS OF THE COUNTRY. EVERY BODY IS THERE TO MAKE THE MAXIMUM FOR THEMSELVES.

    I SAID IT ONCE AGAIN . ITS LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND PROPER MANAGEMENT THAT’S WHY JAMAICA IS IN THE PICKLE IT IS IN TODAY!…

    I CAN BET YOU THAT IF ONE HAVE A REAL OUTSIDE AUDIT OF AIR JAMAICA . ONE WILL FIND THERE WILL BE SEVERAL MILLIONS THAT WILL BE UNACCOUNTED FOR.
    JAMAICA SEEM TO LACK MANAGEMENT SKILLS.EVERY BODY SEEM TO JUST GET IN POSITION JUST TO FILL THEIR POCKETS!.

  36. Del says:

    Is there a way we can peacefully get the government to listen to the thoughts of patriotic Jamaicans? The gut feelings of our people as displayed here by well-thinking members of our society and the ideas submitted are well worth considering. I would not like to see any more of our country ripped away from us. Can we get together and make our voices heard in a peaceful manner? Will the government look to its people for ideas on how to make things work for the future of this beautiful country? Surely, there are people with “good sense” among us. I appeal to the leaders to take time and listen to the views of people who are so passionate about the place we call home.Going back to the IMF should be with a view to make better our resources for its people, not to trade them off for the benefit of the few who sit in high places.

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