Mixed Feelings About ‘Dudus’ Extradition Request
By David Mullings
I have been speaking with a number of Jamaicans living in the USA to get their opinions on the now famous extradition request of Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke, the reputed “don” for Tivoli Gardens. The opinions are mixed as expected but some of the reasons may surprise readers.
Some Jamaicans believe that the USA is fitting the usual “bully” image that it has had in the past and abusing its size in comparison to Jamaica. Most of these people argue that they have never heard of Jamaica extraditing a criminal from the USA to face charges in Jamaica. Of course, when one asks them to name one person that Jamaica has ever requested for extradition from the USA, there is silence.
Maybe the Government of Jamaica should do some more requesting, but then that of course would only add to the burdens of an already burdened justice system.
Other Jamaicans I spoke with agreed with the request because the Jamaican Government over decades have refused to truly tackle the crime problem in earnest because they get too many votes. They however lament the fact that the USA has refused to send people to the Hague for war crimes even though requests have been generated and even recently has not responded to the guilty verdict of 22 CIA agents for kidnapping a man from Italy. The Obama Administration actually went as far as to say it was disappointed in the verdicts.
These Jamaicans point out that the USA has zero moral standing when it comes to requesting criminals from other countries to be tried if the USA itself does not play by the same rules. Yet another case of “do as I say, not as I do”, which was expected to change under Barack Obama is what they say.
One person also used this CIA kidnapping as an example of what could very well happen in the Dudus case if the Jamaican authorities reject the application or take too long. They indicated that it would certainly be a better outcome for the Prime Minister since he would be able to save face on both sides.
Another person I spoke with believed that as long as the USA kept sending criminals back to Jamaica, even when they have been in the USA since they were 7 years old, obviously learning their criminal ways in the USA, Jamaica should not honour ANY extradition requests.
Finally there are those who see clear cut on either side; Honour the request otherwise risk not getting any IMF money and losing international standing or “mek de USA gweh” because ‘Dudus’ is helping poor Jamaicans and the place would “mash up” and “war would bruk out” if he is extradited.
As expected, Jamaicans in the USA do not always agree but the varied reasoning certainly gives much to think about.
The Gleaner reserves the right not to publish comments that may be deemed libelous, derogatory or indecent.
To respond to The Gleaner please use the feedback form.
22 Responses to “Mixed Feelings About ‘Dudus’ Extradition Request”
Leave a Reply
Older Posts
- Broken Promises, Again
- Standing Up For Rights
- Jamaica: A Nation in Crisis
- Where Is The “Political Will” To Tackle Jamaica’s Crime Problem?
- Heartened By Rose Heights Example
- DIASPORA DESERVES A PARTNERING VOICE
- Producing hemp could help Jamaica
- New Taxes vs. Increased Tax Compliance
- Letter from the Jamaican Diaspora Advisory Board in response to an editorial
- What is happening with Air Jamaica?
Other Blogs
Agriculture
Gavel
Have your say
Iconsumer
Motor sports
Social Impact
Sports
Social Bookmarks
Bookmark this:
| M | T | W | T | F | S | S |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| «-» | ||||||
| 1 | ||||||
| 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
| 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 |
| 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 |
| 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 |
| 30 | 31 | |||||
- Gleaner Company Websites
- Jamaica Gleaner
- The Star
- Go Jamaica
- Go Local
- Sports Jamaica
- Sports Caribe
- Hospitality Jamaica
- Youth Link
- Voice UK
- Gleaner Company Websites
- Business Directory
- Gleaner Classifieds
- Kingston Restaurant Week
- Financial Gleaner
- Discover Jamaica
- Discover Caribe
- Returning Residents
- Go Jamaica hosting
- Contact Info
- RSS Feed
- Contact Us
Mr. Mullings.
I guest that’s why Jamaica is like this… because most of you only see Jamaicans in Britain and the USA.. but the sensible and just ones in Canada are rarely mentioned or consulted… you should ask yourself how come Canada is not a crazy country like the us and Britain?.. and wonder why Jamaica have less deported Jamaicans from Canada . than the us and Britain?… as for the Dudus and Golding thing … i do believe that the government should get a agreement signed to have Jamaican legal observers present at Dudus trial in the USA to make sure that he get a fear trial.. if that’s what we are worried about…. I am sure that most Jamaicans would welcome such initiative….
Despite what our views may be about Dudus and those of our fellow Jamaicans and further our respective views of the US, the fact still remains that the Govt. needs to do the right thing and let justice take its course…don’t prove Mark Shields right.
And as for these ‘mixed feelings’ with all due respect have nothing to do with the issue at hand and the pending extradition request. The fact is that Jamaica is a signatory to the Extradition Treaty with the US and must fulfill our obligations under same.
Whether the Jamaicans want to accuse the US of being bullies, ignoring the International Criminal Court (which it is not a member of by the way) and any other excuses that may be made are at best incidental and only serve the purpose of muddying the water. Once the US has met the requirements for making the extradition request then we should complete our obligations and not use the US’s perceived vices as a ruse to shy away from the same.
this topic deserves a serious indepth look at the underlying issues and also at who benefits from the domino’s falling.
Who stands to benefit from Dudus out of the way and his extremely lucrative power base at the wharves up for grabs?
who stands to benefit from a destabilized Jamaica?
As you can see the deeper we dig the more things people might not want to confront come to the surface.
To honestly understand what is going on here we have to stand in the middle and see things from all sides perspective and not pass judgement
A couple of questions that anyone trying to get a better understanding must ask.
Why is Dudus so powerful?
How did he rise to power?
Why do the people of Tivoli love him?
What does he do for the people?
What is his power base?
Who are his rivals?
Why are his subjects so loyal?
Without Dudus would a young man in Tivoli be safe from the police?
You see once we go beneath the rhetoric, slogans and catch phrases the real issue comes into view
A long time dah spiritual war yah a fight and a from the days of the maroons dem bwoy deh a try conquer Jamaica and yet still they aren’t going to win this biblical armagedeon
its already written
http://www.myspace.com/cdfreakmusic read blogs
A the music or the bullet the thing reach
A so the creator set it, this have to happen
Big Boss rules little boss.
I think its full time the governments of Jamaica (current and previous) be truthful about their conspiracy for wealth and stop misleading the people. Jamaica will never be able to move forward into a first world country unless corruption is completely eradicated.
Too many time you have heard “we represent the people and hold the countries best interest at hand” when clearly, that is not the case. In translation, this means we conspire to take as much money as we can and fill the people’s hearts with falls unachievable promises.
It really saddens me to see what the country as come to and where it is going…….
Only fait can help us!
Its very easy to sit on our butts here in the u.s and say that the usa is a bully. or pass judgement, the jamaicans who live here in the u.s and claim the us is a bully should return to jamaica and live in the crime infested country and give the jamaicans who has no choice but to live with the daily murders a chance to come to the u.s and reside,as a former u.s army veteran of jamaica desent who serve in combat in iraq and afganisthan, in 2003 and 2005, and who is now retired, these jamaicans who is living here in the u.s and saying the u.s is a bully is the first to holla out the window that , they naw return to jamaica,because down there is very hard to survive, may GOD bless the U.S.A,and my dear departed mother who brought me to this country as a child…long live america.
Mr. Mullings, I have also been speaking with a number of Jamaicans in the United States, Jamaica, and the U.K. about what I would more accurately describe as the extradition quagmire involving the infamous Christopher “Dudus” Coke. However, my opinion and those of the others I have spoken to seem to differ quite sharply from those mentioned in your article.
I would say that the opinions you mentioned are more disappointing than “surprising” as you suggested.
Christopher “Dudus” Coke, as you said yourself, is a reputed “don” for Tivoli Gardens. That is known by practically all Jamaicans as well as the members of the law enforcement community in Jamaica and overseas.
I do not believe that the U.S. is being a bully, and the U.S. actions have nothing to do with its size compared to that of Jamaica. These people you refer to in your article appear to be somewhat ignorant about law enforcement activities between the U.S and Jamaica. The U.S. does not need to rely on Jamaica to send them an extradition request, because when criminals are identified in the U.S., they are promptly apprehended and deported. Furthermore, regarding extradition requests from Jamaica to the U.S., it is up to the Jamaican government to exercise their judicial responsibilities to their citizens by aggressively pursuing justice in criminal matters involving Jamaica and its citizenry. This, however, is clearly not a priority for the Jamaican government.
The U.S. extradites more criminals from countries like Colombia, much more often, with more cooperation and without delay, than from Jamaica. These criminals are wealthier and more notorious th, yet these extraditions occur without the problems that are encountered with Jamaica.
Furthermore, there have been many requests to the U.S. that have resulted in the successful capture and deportation of some of Jamaica’s most notorious criminals. These reciprocal efforts from the U.S. are rarely, if ever, mentioned in the newspapers.
Regarding the U.S.’s refusal to send people to The Hague, remember, the U.S has an effective, and relatively fair judicial system, one that is recognized globally. The CIA probably had to take actions into their own hands since the Italian government couldn’t (or wouldn’t) manage the task of apprehending the subjects targeted by the 22 CIA agents. Keep in mind that they were prime terrorist suspects, and the subject of the most egregious crimes against the U.S. and all free democracies, an issue that the U.S. will pursue aggressively and pervasively. Don’t forget, Obama is a politician, what else can be expected from the U.S. President in response to the Italians’ decision regarding U.S. personnel that risk life and limb to protect and secure his nation?
Instead of complaining about the extradition request from the U.S., Jamaica should be grateful that the U.S. is helping them to take care of one of their biggest problems. Jamaica needs to come to the realization that due to the common practice of politicians and political parties aligning themselves with known criminal elements, the Jamaican government is unable and unwilling to prosecute these criminals. They should be thankful that the U.S. government has been able to secure criminal charges and are also willing to pursue justice and go as far as to request extradition, hence relieving the Jamaican government from the quagmire they created in the first place.
If the Jamaican government cannot stand the heat from turning over Dudus, then they should covertly assist the U.S. in ensuring that Dudus is captured and sent to the U.S. forthwith. Hopefully a lesson will be learned that if the Jamaican government cannot handle the task of ridding themselves of fleas then they should make sure that they do not lie with dogs.
Jamaica need to follow the rules of the treaty and comply with the request which is reasonable before its too late.
The country should not let one man who is not even an elected official plunges its ratings on the international scene.
criminals should be dealt with in a swift manner.
it wasn’t a problem under Eddie Seaga or PJ , so why its a problem with Bruce.
Bruce need to act like a leader and do what is best for the country, lead by example.
We Jamaicans have this acute ability to gravitate towards stupidity over common sense. Here we are swamped with crime, generated by politicians in league with area dons and “community organizers”. Yet when we get a chance to eliminate a known gun runner we hesitate. We need to ask ourselves how many good Jamaicans have died due to Dudus exportation of guns to Jamaica. Saying he helps people in the community is like saying Hitler was good for Germany. His holding of small self gratification events in the area is no substitute for the countless murders and pain he has caused Jamaica.
Even more crazy is Jamaicans trying to defend Dudus from being sent to the USA for trial. Using argument that the USA ignored request to send CIA personnel to Italy for trail is self defeating. Are we to holding on to people causing suffering to our family just to prove a “point” to the US? Is proving a point to the “great big USA” this important? Who is willing to sacrifice themselves or their love ones to prove this point? Well, this is exactly what we are flirting with. Seems to me we should export all our criminals and ask the US to send us psychiatrists.
The shocking Ignorance of Jamaicans is breathtaking, I have read most of the comments here and as always I am more confident that Jamaica will never be lifted from the morass of crime and violence, with the type of people it has, where there is no wisdom the people perish, Jamaicans have got to be the most Arrogant Ignorant Nation on Earth.
To hear Jamaicans continue to make the argument that the youths have to be protected from Police is bordering on insanity, the young people need to stay away from, crime and they have nothing to fear from Law enforcement,The rule of law must carry the Day, all Jamaicans are quick to talk about their rights , but they have no idea of their responsibilities, freedom is never free.
Secondly the Argument that a slime ball small time thug is keeping the peace and helping people, shows the level of depravity of Jamaicans, Give me Barabas,that’s their mentality ,this Nation will perish because as a people Jamaicans care nothing about their children’s future they live for now, let me eat a food now, they have no patriotism, or civic pride all they care about is lewd sexuality, drunkeness, and gluttony.
They are quite prepared to sell the Nation’s future down the drain for a bellyful without a thought to what kind of Country they are leaving their Children.this my dear friends is the heart of what ails our once beautiful Country,.
All are culpable and the corruption is palpable, and yes the Police Force has corrupt members but it also is the only Agency in Jamaica that has any kind of transparency,or is subject to any evaluation of consequence ,so of course if one is looking one will find something wrong,and rightly the Police needs to change and become more professional.
As a past member I salute that move , however there needs to be a top down review of all agencies starting from the Prime Minister’s Office.
Lastly the Golding Administration , is finishing the destruction of our Nation, the destruction started by Edward Seaga with his Syrian Enclave type Politics, the same garrison,Politics practiced in the Middle East, The Party of Bustamante, and Hugh Lawson Shearer is almost now gone, the Labor Party is now a disgrace, and the opposition is hardly any better.
Golding is lost and bereft of ideas ,or will, the ship that is Jamaica is floundering and will in time crash on the rocks of crime, his challenge to debate the Opposition last week is indeed telling, but even if he was to debate , what would Portia be able to add.
I’m not surprised. Jamaica is gone to the dogs.
Why the heck is “Dudus” still in Jamaica. Dear God man! Why can’t Jamaica see that if this man is not extradited that simply means no IMF money and and even bigger drop in the Criminal Perception index. Why does Jamaica allow one man to let all this happen. Mark my words; if he is not gone before the end of the year. The entire nation of Jamaica will suffer because of it. Examples: US, UK & Canadian Visas will be severely reduced to Jamaican citizens (next to none, and causing us to waist our money at embassy). No debt write off from the UK especially. And all Jamaicans honest or not will be subjected to stringent screenings at airports or other points of arrival internationally. Our exchange rate compared to all the big economies will be diminished further. All of this will be done unspoken. If and when Jamaica gets any worst it will result in verbal & monetary sanctions against the country. I left Jamaica in 1996 and am now an American Citizen. I will never visit Jamaica, the area I grew up is a notorious gang area, and I would never subject my wife or my children to it. If Jamaica does not eradicate crime and corruption from the country, it will remain a doomed nation for years to come. It will become the Somalia of the Caribbean.
This is ridiculous. In a country which suffers from such high crime how can we be squeamish about extraditing one of the biggest alleged criminals.
The US as far as I can see was and has been very patient in requesting his extradition as some of his crimes took place years ago. This is the problem with Jamaica, our politicians are unwilling or incapable of dealing with the monster called ‘crime’ which they created.
I agree with the comment that the US might be doing Bruce a favour if it “kidnaps” Dudus. Maybe they could send some of the CIA agents from the Italian case on the mission.
OUTonbail, I strongly agree with your comment but people are forgetting also there is a lot of people in jail in Jamaica because they decided to stand up to the “Jim Brown regime” yes, I know a lot of them and paid for it with their freedom. This regime has politicians/policemen/judges/lawyers in their pockets, and these people would not like to see him go to the US to face any charges because the bridges will be crumbling down piece by piece.
Am i the only one who finds it funny how neither Jamaicans for Justice nor the church have any opinions on this one?
Its convenient that all of a sudden we are interested in “rights” when we ourselves tout the law and infringe on each others rights daily without any cares or concerns about rights.
The new buzz word seems to be “socioeconomic” we use it to defend and excuse the minority criminal elements amongst us, as if there is really any excuse to rape and decapitate a child(a trend thats rapidly on the rise). What happened to her rights?
Little did we notice that our rights were invaded when the Prime Minister of our country went on International Television and told the world that he and by extension all Jamaicans are prejudice, or when recently he told the Nation how much of a model community Tivoli Gardens was, now i don’t know about you, but that seems like and endorsement to me. In fact not only were we oblivious to it but we were in agreement.
Mr. Coke is not the only Jamaican who has rights we all do, but we are so willing to sacrifice our own rights, dignity and good standing for one man? like lambs to the slaughter we are willing to disrupt an entire country in order to “make sure” his rights are protected.
How far are we willing to go to make sure that our children get a good education? which is their right, how far are we willing to go to make sure that they get good medical care? which is their right, but we are willing to go to bat for Mr.Coke, who lets not kid ourselves we all know is not an innocent.
And lets be honest here people we would find any excuse(we are good at finding excuses)to argue not extraditing him. Jamaica has subscribed to the Declaration of Human Rights and we insist on making sure that Government adhere to it (Jamaicans for Justice especially), we also subscribed to the Extradition Treaty why not make sure that the Government adheres to that too?
The point? simply this, every time we ignore corruption in a party that we are affiliated with, we are infringing on our rights, every time we know of, protect or hide criminals we are infringing on our own rights, every time we allow Politicians to manipulate and lie (blatant) and not be accountable for their actions(inaction) we are infringing on our own rights and i could go on and on.
This JLP administration has done the only thing possible, to stand up to the USA. However, honoring this request to send Dudus is wrong. He is not the main reason why this peace in West Kingston remains quiet for a while. There are bigger influences behind this guy. Who saw the face of Jim Brown in a coffin, what ID was used to certify that he was dead? There is something wrong. Lets see.
ZZZ, you are absolutely right, corruption runs through the entire fabric of the Jamaican society. However if good people keep pointing out the this corruption and the people responsible for it, we might start seeing a change in Jamaica. Yeah…I know this is a long shot but corruption loves nothing better than for good people to be silent.
Again, I know our “elected leaders” are primary players in the “Somalification” of Jamaica but we still have to resist…else the entire Jamaica society perishes.
There should be concerns about the extradition of citizens of Jamaica to stand trial in the US if there are good reasons to think that these people will not be treated justly and also if the charges are not seen as proven, in Jamaica, beyond the shadow of a doubt by Jamaica’s legal system. However I am also concerned with the idea of citizens trying to prevent the order from being carried out if the charges are deemed true by the Jamaican Judicial System. On too many occasions citizens have created chaos when the legal system used the guidelines of the law to make a determination which may not be in harmony with the people’s opinion. Citizens, in disagreement, took the laws in their hands and committed destructive acts which serve only to erode both the fabric and the moral values of Jamaica. Care should be taken not to use emotions in making a decision and allow good wisdom to prevail.
About Mr Coke’s situation, I think the Jamaica Judicial System should make the determination if Dudus should be released to the US authorities and should base this purely on their conviction that he is guilty as charged.
Growing up on Rosseau road, my route to school [St Aloysius Boys School] took me down West street to Bumper Hall, east on Spanish Town Rd, pass May Pen Cemetary, Queens Theatre, Back a Wall, [name for the place the early rasta man use to burn wood and sell the coal] Cornation Market, then on to Parade.
Since then, Back a Wall has turned into Tivoli Gardens, Trench Town is now divided into Arnett Gardens and Wilton gardens [Rema] ,Queens Theater is long gone, May Pen cemetary is run down and delapidated, Cornation Market is a shadow of what it use to be.[ i have fond memories of going to market on sunday mornings]
Western Kingston has always have top class politicians as its’ representitives, [former Prime Minister Edward Seaga and the powerful Spalding brothers,i am not sure who the representitives are now] who have built up strong political bases, where the masses vote with their bellies instead of on issues,or what the MP has done to benifit the constituency. [infrastructure, Jobs etc.]
If you live in Tivoli you better not vote for PNP, or risk having to move out of the area, or even death.
Its a mistery, how these politician get elected over and over when they have done nothing to upgrade and enhance the community.
They have chosen to give the people fish instead of teaching them how to go fishing, which in turn has lull voters into becoming suckers for hand outs, when their respective political party is in power.
Now that the politcal land scape has change, the moniker “area don” could easily be “drug baron”. Some of the power politician had, as shifted to these hench men that use to do the dirty work
These so call area leaders now have the same or more sway over the constituency than the politician.
Voting with thier bellies is the situation the people of Western Kingston find themselves in when it comes to the extraditation of Dudus to the USA, after all, he is the one now handing out the fish not the politicians.
The politicians who are against extraditing Dudus to the USA are scared their connection with this known thug, who they have allowed to opperate with impunity for all these years, may be brought to light if this area don is extradited and brought to trail.
I truly believe that Jamaica will not get any better until the politics of ‘voting with your belly” is totally eradicated from the Jamaican political landscape.
I am reading between the lines all the comment that have been made regarding the Extradition request for Mr Coke.
All the comment made so far potray a strong sense of bias regarding the decision of the ruling government.
Ask yourself the question, is it sufficient evidence to drag a suspect to court for trial without having enough evidence to present to the court? What evidence does America have regarding the suspect activity. A recorded conversation with an informer. Another attempt by the USA to Entrapt someone they heard having a conversation but having no practical evidence of his involvement. Does America have more evidence? Well?
The Jamaican government asked for full disclosure of it. Until that is submitted and it is carefully verified, no extradition regarding the suspect will be done. That’s the bottom line.
Please note!!!!! It does not matter how many extradition request were honoured in past. If the government wants to peer into it, the government can. Again it shows how disrespectful most people are for Jamaica and its government. What a shame.
It’s ignorance to talk about America as if America is a perfect from all crimes. Under the name of Super Power America has committed so many crime internationally and has sold so many illegal guns and drugs in the name of the CIA. It’s disgraceful.
The Dudus affair is just another black-eye on Jamaica’s international image. If we had any to begin with!!! Mr. Mullings argument about a mixed feelings is just not credible to say the least. That is said with the utmost respect in regards to his point of view.
We live in a world where we operate by contracts which we must adhere to. The Jamaican government signed the extradition treaty and must honour the conditions of the same. This is a very slippery road we are venturing on when we start to refuse to honour contracts.
19 other Jamaicans were removed from Jamaica in 2009 based on the same treaty. This charade is creating an impression that the government as something to hide!
A judicial matter has been turned into a political spectacle. This is a clear example of what we see in the Jamaican society. The police cannot apprehend a known criminal without having the streets blocked.
This matter needs to be settled in the court’s and not via the political bully pulpit.
Send him to the States so my man can get a US visa! US has severely cut back on giving Jamaicans visas because of this fiasco. It really isn’t fair for the honest, hardworking Jamaicans who have to re-apply for a visa. It is not cheap.